Golden’s Bridge Fire District Mtg. with Capt. Brian Lynch 9/16/10 –
Transcript of audio recording.
Key :
BL – Brian Lynch
TB – Tom Beneventano
EB – Ed Brancati
JW – John Winter
RM – Robert Melillo
JS – Joseph Simoncini
GR – George Roberts
WH – Walter Hughes
EB – Come on in and have a seat
BL – I just want to repeat my request that I prefer to talk to Ed privately but..
TB – Just Ed
BL – That is my desire
EB – You know,back a little while ago when we tried to set this meeting up in the first instance , tried to set this meeting up in the first instance and then you were going out of town on business.
TB – I’ll interrupt (unintelligible)…. Privately..that’s fine but he commissioners I think would like to talk to you as a district but the president said just that you asked him to be here
BL -No he volunteered I guess and I have no problem with John being in the room no.
TB – It’s OK that he’s he
BL – but I am not comfortable speaking in front of the entire board.
TB- I understand..is it OK if he is here?
BL – Yes I am comfortable with John being in the room
EB – The district board of fire commissioners I happen to be the chair because somebody has to be designated the chair according to the law but when it comes to these kinds of matters um I look at the board of fire commissioners as five equal individuals, nobody more special than somebody else. Um, you raised the complaint, um there has been some action on it. The board of fire commissioners wanted to know from ah your perspective where the matter rests at this point um because we had a police investigation, we had uh actions that were taken by the chiefs um.
BL – Do you have that documented? All that actions you’ve taken?
EB – Actions that have been reported us by chiefs ….agreed ..that have come up
BL – No, your investigation too
EB – Yeah, we had a Police Investigation
BL – No your investigation of this incident, do you have documentation that you did an investigation?
EB – Yes
BL – Can I have a copy of it?
EB – This is part of it
BL – OK, I need a copy of it
EB – No
BL – No, you can’t tell me No. It’s my right
EB – I can tell you whatever the hell I want to Brian. And in this climate right now, you raised a complaint about some members of the department messing with your equipment.
BL – I’m in a hostile environment here. I can’t even come here.
TB – There’s nothing hostile here Brian. What we’re trying to do is we’re trying to find out what happened. We received a complaint that something criminal may have been involved and you asked…
BL – Do you want me to take you through the history real quick?
TB – Just listen to me for one second please, yes I do want the history. But then you asked for the district to be fully involved. So we got involved, that’s the only reason we got involved was because you asked for it.
BL – Well I got mixed signals, the first note I got back was that it’s not the district’s issue, it’s the chief’s issue.
TB – Who sent the note saying it was the chief’s issue?
BL – Rob Melillo
RM – It ended up we asked the chief to do an investigation
TB – Right, we asked the chief to investigate on the issue of manpower. That was our first act to ask the chief to investigate with you and then report back to us what is the issue? Did we need to be involved further, was this something that’s been satisfactorily resolved? And we were told it was satisfactorily resolved.
BL – By??
TB – By the Chiefs and that you were satisfied.
BL – I did not… That is not the truth
TB ….. (unintelligible ) we asked for something to be signed to that effect. We need something in writing that says that this is resolved to your satisfaction and that there is if I recall correctly
?? – I have an email from you saying that
BL – OK, Can I get the documentation of the investigation you’ve done, what’s your (unintelligible)
TB – OK you were going to start with the history. Go ahead give me the history
BL – My car was tampered with.
TB – When?
BL – Last November. My Gear was tampered with consistently. Items were stolen off of my gear. My helmet was defaced and then I got the threatening letter on my gear.
TB – OK
BL – Over a period of 6 months my gear was tampered with and since then
GR – Brian your car was tampered with here?
BL – Yes
TB – OK
BL – And I was able with very little due diligence I was able to map who was in the building on all these occasions. It’s a very narrow scope and it’s the same people that are treating me hostily at this point here at the firehouse.
GR – So the car was tampered with.
BL- My leatherman’s was stolen, my voice modulator was stolen
RM – Slow down please Brian
BL – I am repeating my request that I would like to talk to Ed. No, No, You’re Just, I know what you’re doing
TB – Just want to know who’s being, Who was here
(unintelligible)
BL – Where’s Steve Mines?
TB – He’s away
GR – What was the last thing Brian you said?
BL – My voice modulator and my leathermans
EB – Leathermans
GR – Also there was a note attached
BL – My helmet was defaced and then I got a note on my gear on May 7th. It said “YOU’RE NEXT BITCH”. And I have the note.
?? – The police report was filed
BL – The police report was filed the next morning.
TB – and that’s when we asked for the police to come here? Perfect. That was at our request.
BL – That was not, it was my request and Walter who called the police.
JS – No, No That was on my request.
TB – Yeah it was our request.
BL – Walter?
JS – to the Chief to have
WH – You reported
TB – It was our request to have the Police here. We wanted the Police here. That’s the first thing we wanted.
WH – You requested it, I told Ed that’s what we’re going to do.
BL – I requested that evening through Steve Mines to bring Ed Brancati to the firehouse that Friday evening and that he did not..Neither of them showed up that evening and the next day the Police came after I called Walter and requested the Police.
GR- With the issue with your car, what did they do?
BL – I never really found out what happened but I was told that they had attached all kinds of , what is it Rob?
JW – Zip Ties
BL – Zip Ties
JW– I am assuming
BL – I have no idea , sounds like your car was screwed up.
JW – (unintelligible) I believe that’s what it was
TB – (unintelligible) Where were we first (??)
GR – There was an incident report I believe.
?? – (unintelligible multiple people talking) I don’t know
?? – Do you have a copy of the report
BL – The Police report was filed when the threatening note was put on my gear
GR – The police came I believe
EB – You have the report
GR – Somewhere there was an incident report by the Police and then on my recollection the Chief that subsequent things sort of..
WH – From my knowledge from the moment the police report I have heard nothing
GR – Since the Police investigation, the equipment .. (unitelligable multiple people talking)
GR – So the car was before .. (unitelligable multiple people talking)
BL – The car was the first incident
TB – That was last year
GR – Last year
TB – November
GR – The rest of this was this year
BL – Correct
GR – The Police investigated
BL - May 8th
GR – After that
WH – After that to my knowledge there has nobody been tampering with anybody’s gear
JS – If we called the cops on the note ok that’s fine , not on the car tampering
TB – But we (unintelligible) on all these things
BL – Yes we did
TB – The it would be in the Police Report
RM – It would be in their report
TB – OK That’s fine. As long as there was a Police report and everything was done. Now subsequent to that..what else .. (unintelligible) The next step in the district
BL – Then I have been verbally abused. I am not going to name names because I am not comfortable with all the people in this room.
TB – I understand , you need to relax
BL – It’s hard for me to relax when I am the one who is not getting my request met.
TB – Your request as I explained to you. (Multiple people talking)
BL – I’m sorry??
(multiple people talking)
GR – Your allegation without particulars without the is that there are people in the fire department that verbally abused you, is that right?
BL – That’s correct
EB – That’s news to me tonight
GR – And that has happened during this summer or summer period sort of speak?
BL – It’s been happening consistently until within the last couple of weeks yes
TB – Just so you understand on your request, your request is being taken under advisement (unitelligable) our Counsel. It’s not going to be addressed as a knee jerk reaction here. Yes, here’s what we’ve got we’re going to go through the minutes. He has to make a decision on what we have and what needs to be compiled to address your request but now in terms of this being hostile , I don’t think this is hostile in any way and that’s what we’re trying to do is make it as cordial as possible. We’re trying to investigate this to your satisfaction, that’s what we’re trying to do.
BL – Everyone I have consulted with has told me that I’m entitled to get a written report of the investigation you’ve done.
EB – Who told you that?
BL – I don’t have to tell you that
EB – That’s why you’re probably not going to get a written report.
TB – (Unintelligible) Our Counsel
GR – You know, the commisoners can speak for themselves, the verbal abuse over the summer til a couple of weeks ago. I think that’s something new, I never heard that before.
EB – No
JS – Give me the dates Brian of the verbal abuse, started two weeks ago you said?
BL – No
GR – Up to a couple of weeks ago
BL – I am not going to discuss this. I will discuss this with you and Ed Brancati. I will not discuss this with all the gentlemen in the room.
?? – I Don’t even know anymore
JS – What goods it going to do?
BL – This is not a chess game gentlemen, this is for real
(multiple people shouting)
GR – The commissioners have a duty, you know an obligation to investigate this uh you know to ascertain whether the pattern is continuing or has stopped and so forth. At some point the Chief, at some point at least as far as equipment end after the Police thing right? That’s finished up to this point is that right Chief? There’s no more tampering with equipment? (WH talks over GR here ) This is an ongoing investigation, the reason we have to ask you to be here tonight is to be sure is there a further investigation they must do to satisfy themselves.
BL – I would love to present you with the data
GR – Well
TB – That’s what we’re trying to do and you’re saying to us that it’s hostile, that you’re not comfortable with three commissioners in the room in any way shape or form conducting this investigation.
BL – That is correct
TB – That would include Steve Mines as the forth
BL – I would accept Steve Mines to be in the room, that’s why I asked if he was here.
TB – So you would accept Steve Mines but these gentlemen you’re not willing to accept
BL – Uh huh
EB – You are not going to get that choice
GR –Well The commissioners have to really as a group do the investigation. I mean
TB – I don’t now how that takes place without the commissioner. Unless there’s allegations against the commissioners which is fine then let me know and we can handle that separately.
GR – That’s another issues whether you if you know your request is that some commissioners do not hear and they are part of this (multiple people talking) they have an obligation to be part of it
?? – Recuse themselves
TB – If you are asking me to recuse myself for a reason , I’ve recused myself for reasons in the past but in this instance I don’t have that type of reason. I’m trying to actually figure out what and investigate it and come to the bottom of the facts to see whats happened. That’s it, that’s all I want to know is what happened and then say here’s the facts. This was proper , this was improper, here’s the penalty for whomever if there is a penalty deserved . That’s it. That’s what we’re trying to find out. So, it sounds as though that you don’t want to hear that from me in any way, it’s almost like it’s falling on deaf ears.
BL – That’s not true Tom
TB – You told me you don’t want me involved in that , that’s what I am trying to find out. If you don’t want me involved in it in some way, I don’t understand the basis for that. That’s what I am saying. I don’t know how to address that in any other way as a commissioner
EB – We’re a board of fire commissioners, we’re five equal people on this. If there was a specific allegation or being made about a specific commissioner such that the specific commissioner might be a target of investigation that would be one thing. But not hearing any of that other than you feel uncomfortable talking with one or more of the commissioners.
BL – I am intimidated at this point to state what I want to state.
TB – But I don’t understand how. That’s..
JS – I don’t have a problem leaving. If that’s what you guys want to do
(multiple people talking)
TB – But I want to know ..
GR – If you don’t have a quorum of commissioners, how you going to make a determination to have an investigation (multiple people talking)
TB – Let’s address it this way. The three commissioners you are not comfortable speaking in front of leave and you discuss it with counsel and Ed in private. They are going to have an obligation to share it with us. Is that a problem in this situation or no?
EB – And I’ll probably insist on it be recorded. Cause I’m not
TB – I’m trying to
EB - Unless I had it down word for word what he says in relaying it to the commissioners cause it’s the board of commissioners that have to act. I might leave something out or I might be a nefarious bad guy who deliberately leaves something out
BL – I am sure there’s phones recording right now. Is that phone recording right now?
BL – OK I think our work is done here. Thank you gentlemen. I would like to defer this to next month, that is my request at this point.
EB – OK
BL – And keep the investigation open
JS – Is that phone recording?
RM – It’s a phone, here you go
BL – Is it recording yes or no?
RM – Does it look like it is recording?
BL – Please answer the question. That’s what I am asking
(multiple people talking)
BL – The reason I am like this, you want to know the reason I am like this because the last three gentlemen that came in here came out of here on a rail period, that’s what happened in this room.
EB – You are entitled to your belief
TB – That’s all well and good. What I am trying to talk about is you are saying this is a hostile environment and understandably nothing could be further from the truth. This is not hostile. We want to get to the bottom of this. Now someone criminally tampered with your car, your being, your gear, your equipment or anything I want the police to be involved. So the police were called. Following the incident the police were called. It had to be done. So we get the police here. We have a police report and then we want further investigation and all we asked of the chief was to relay to you we need to find Brian this is still open, we need to know that this is resolved to his satisfaction or not. The chief expressed that he thought it was resolved to your satisfaction based upon discussions with you and that’s all well and good but we need something from Brian that’s why we asked you here.
BL – I know that’s why, you wanted to close the case based upon my concurrence.
(multiple people talking)
TB – (unintelligible) We want to know you’re happy. You’re not happy we want to know.
JS – If you were sitting here, how would you fix your problem that is going on here. How would you fix it?
TB – Is it just the three of us that have to leave?
JS – I don’t care, How would you fix it? I don’t know what would you want us to do?
RM – Does it feel better if you are out in the open on the meeting floor?
BL – I think I have already said more than I intended to.
GR – Verbally abused, it that something that happened publicly?
BL – I , I will document that to you. There are witnesses to this.
GR – So its public
TB – OK
JW – (unntelligable ) submit to their attorney
BL – Not tonight I can’t, no
GR – Let’s do this. The commissioners, and it’s up to you Brian if it’s alright with the commissioners if you would like to submit to me in a confidential memo what you want to submit but this is for me to submit to the commissioners (intelligible) Do that between now and the monthly meeting in October If you want to do that
TB – I will say this and again back to the point is if you think that if any of us have a conflict of interest we should be apprised and maybe we (unitelligable) him and then it get expressed in what way we have a conflict and we’re out of it. And if we don’t and he determines that he determines, you know what if it’s fine with Brian to talk to you two guys in private where its things you feel ore comfortable speaking about without us here for whatever reason makes you feel comfortable and then you don’t mind if they share it with us afterwards then that’s would have to be fine . We’re just trying to accommodate this. I don’t know any other way to express that other than we’re trying to accommodate that.
RM – Sounds like to me that Brian’s got two issues. Our initial issue is he claims that somebody is mucking with his gear.
TB – And car
RM – The gear, he said he couldn’t come here firematically. You claim that you couldn’t be firematically unsafe to come here, is that correct?
BL – John, I just want to reiterate the request that I gave to John that I wanted a legal counsel representing me here from the fire department. I asked you that in July, I was not granted that request and I am not comfortable answering these questions.
GR – You asked the fire department
BL – I did
JW – (unitelligable) conversation, I never mentioned this to anybody.
BL – I did ask John to keep my request confidential yes.
JW – I never said that to anybody. Brian , Walter and I met. He asked that the fire district, I mean fire department to provide him counsel for this. I said I don’t believe that is within my powers to just go and hire an attorney. He’s not been charged with anything. He just felt uncomfortable, for me to move forward I would have to bring it up on the floor in order to do something like that and the request was to keep this confidential. I couldn’t do that.
JS – Walter were you aware of the verbal abuse and you didn’t notify the district ? I am just asking the question , I am not going to tell anybody.
WH – No I haven’t
TB – Are you concerned we’re bringing you on charges? Is that why the counsel
BL – You have an attorney here, you are a professional attorney, I’m just some computer nerd. I don’t know how to represent myself legally.
TB – You are the Captain
BL – I was until all this happened yes.
TB – someone tampered with your gear and we’re trying to investigate it. So that’s what we plan to do.
GR – I think the commisoners are ting to tell you that are just trying to do their job.
TB – Right, You know, I don’t want someone wandering around tampering with stuff
BL – Is this standard not to have um your secretary not present at executive session, I am just curious?
EB – yes
BL – OK
BL – Are their minutes kept of these meetings?
GR – (unitelligable) a summary of the minutes (unintelligible) every single thing (unintellgable). Whether the Chief was aware to some extent of the verbal abuse (multiple people talking)
WH – Some of it
JW - (unintelligible) the situation as opposed to helping. I personally see it as counter productive in the long run even if I thought it was somehow in my authority. One way or another, in my opinion, I don’t think it merits it. Um, I don’t think that I am the end all I don’t know how I would ever get to that. We brought it up on the floor for the lawsuit to allocate money when Albert was named. I don’t know how we would ever get there
TB – With respect to the issues for Brian to put something for George to review so that you are comfortable, we could do that.
GR – I would somewhat of a distinction. Tampering with cars in the parking lot is owned by the district, tampering with equipment
TB – Firematically unsafe
GR – Fooling around with uh Helmets and voice modulators, verbal abuse I am not so sure
BL – If you are making a comprehensive list you can add that my radio was tampered with for months consistently
GR – How so
BL – It was taken out of the slot and turned on so the battery would be dead when I responded to calls jeapordizing my safety at calls and jeopardizing the men below me. And it was very easy for me to map who was in the building and it only took me two tries to map the building and you guys could have done the same thing if you did an investigation. Very easy.
GR: But that stopped though?
BL: That stopped once the police came. We went to the new radio system and they took my radio away. Which Everybody’s radio got taken away.
(multiple people talking)
BL: Yes
TB: I don’t’ want anything secret from the police until we have a full investigation.
GR: Years ago when I was active in this department, Two members had a fist fight. That wasn’t necessarily the concern of the commissioners. Two members had a fistfight. Not for the commissioners, maybe the department. Kind of alluding to the verbal abuse.
JW: At that time we actually had a trial.
GR: That may be a different (unintelligible)
BL: I recall another fistfight in the parking lot and no action was taken
(multiple people talking)
TB: Just so we’re all comfortable here. Is anybody in the room here recording any of this stuff? Anybody?
BL: Yes I am
TB: You are recording
BL: I am
TB: So there you go, so now we have a full recording of this. That’s wonderful. Being done in a way
BL: Thanks Tom
TB: (unintelligible) I’d like to know. Now we know everything’s recorded so we have evidence of whats our investigation is. That’s it. So perhaps the best way is to speak with our counsel and determine what needs to be done whether it needs to be done privately with you and Ed then Brian that’s how it gets done, gets relayed to the district. I don’t know how else to address this other than making Brian comfortable
GR: And your request is to continue this in a month, that’s your request?
BL: Yes, keep the case opened.
GR: The commissioners have to decide that.
EB: Alright, Thank you very much Brian. We’ll see you next month.
BL: Thank you
